HOW CRAZY DO YOU HAVE TO BE?
Note: Comments of readers are their own and do not reflect the feelings of Bob Lonsberry or lonsberry.com.
# 1. 1/10/13 12:13 AM by George - Webster,ny
Liberalism is a mental disorder.
# 2. 1/10/13 12:15 AM
You have always sneered at anyone, much less the mentally ill, who have needed mental health assistance. You are using a group of the population that you have nothing but disdain for(because they obviously can't find the bootstraps YOU'VE pulled yourself up by)to give credibility to your self/god given 2nd amendment to. You are truly a piece of shift.
# 3. 1/10/13 12:17 AM
You should know I meant !*&!@ not shift. I'm not that fond of spell check but at least my mistake isn't as common as loose vs. lose.
# 4. 1/10/13 2:26 AM by Bam Bam Rubble
Would you give a blind person a gun? I know a gun "enthusiast" who did just that. Also took him to pick out a gun, (yeah, he passed the background check!) and even paid for the guys NRA membership, and takes him to the gun range to practice. He also has stickers on his windows, but he doesn't have a car, because he is blind. And they say he can't see a thing through them darn windows anyhew!
He can't even see the knobs on his stove!
Oh yeah, the disease the blind guy has is macular degeneration, so he really didn't need a scope or even a sight, and got a shotgun. And he's also diagnosed and openly exhibits symptoms of Alzheimer's, early onset dementia, and just plain outright senility. He also suffers from depression and is medicated for that too. You see, he lives alone, and needs his gun. Mr. "guns for everyone" told him not to tell the doctor about the guns, and everything will be okay.
Sometimes he misplaces his gun and can't find it for days. Last I knew he forgot where he hid the ammo.
You see, the blind guy has these here rights...
This whole gun idea is working out just great. Since the old guy got the gun, not one crook has even tried to break in and rob him!
(Oh yeah, the mailman doesn't know about the gun either. Do you think he suspects anything? Do NRA magazines come in a plain brown wrapper, like porn and sex toys?)
Oh yeah, you, like everyone else I've told about this, probably don't believe me right offhand. But I can take you to his home and prove it to you. Maybe we can even get him to shoot his gun. Except on 2 conditions.
#1 is: I stay in the car, a little ways down the block.
#2 is: You ring the doorbell!
They say last Halloween at this guy's house was a real hoot!
# 5. 1/10/13 4:01 AM by B Smith - Syracuse New York
Actually you end up making a very good case why guns should be banned. There indeed are lot of people who are on an edge and guns often are very dangerous in their hands. Just look at the numbers around the world and in countries where they have a rule of law and control guns, overall violence and murders are down. Actually those numbers show only a very small rate of murder compared to the US.
It is just really hard to take anyone seriously who values second amendment rights above the safety of everyone else and frankly the more you talk, the more reasonable it sounds to put the guns away once and for all in the US.
I would also think that many of those who are saying that no one will ever take their guns until they are dead are probably borderline mental cases too. It also shows just how extreme some of you "hate the government" folks have become.
When you get right down to the heart of this problem, the notion that many on the right feel they will rule when government fails because they have guns, is in fact a very good reason to remove the guns. Ultimately we are going to find out if guns or the ballot box rule.
As far as hunting, you can rent a gun and then turn it in after you get your deer. Yeah, we all know that isn't the real reason you want guns, so put that on the table too so everyone can see what the real motives are.
# 6. 1/10/13 4:42 AM by Richard - Penfield
The most blatant example of a straw-man argument I've seen in some time. Please cite an example of someone -- anyone -- who has proposed actionable legislation that would apply a blanket ban on gun ownership to anyone who is "mentally ill." What's that? You can't? I didn't think so.
If fearmongering is the only way you think you can win this debate, maybe it's time you admitted you don't have a case.
# 7. 1/10/13 5:29 AM by MikeNTNY - North Tonawanda NY
Hey Bob, All this goes to show the old saying is true. Guns have only two enemies, rust and politicians.
# 8. 1/10/13 5:43 AM by cj
"It’s OK to hate gun owners, the president and the governor have proven that."
Is that the truth? Bob are you sure what you write and think about is true? Do you really believe yourself? Isn't the Republican, conservative tea party representatives part of the government with their strict self righteous tough on crime gun laws. You created your own dilemma now when the police who you adore come to confiscate your assault weapons.
Will you fire at them? Isn't greed and lust considered a couple of the deadly sins? Having more than 3 guns is greedy and lusting over guns is pretty sick.. No one is in our country shooting at us but us.
# 9. 1/10/13 6:03 AM by OldVietVet - Rochester, NY
A well ordered and peacefull society cannot make exceptions for mental illness in regards to crime and punishment.The fraudelent nature of the ever expanding categories is apparent to anyone with a high school education. We are now nearing a point where mass murderers are almost certain of virtual acquital.The weapon is to blame according to our politicians,who take their cue from the phoney pop culture psychologists,and with their urging, pass "gun laws" to curb "gun violence" by "shooters".If society considers every atrocity committed a symptom of mental illness, then there will eventully be no atrocities too great for some individuals.I thought that was one of the lessons we learned from the two world wars of the 20th century. Apparently not.
# 10. 1/10/13 6:17 AM
In a nation gone mad:
The sociopath rises to power
Materialism becomes God
Madmen are given voice and
Love and wisdom are rendered silent & impractical
# 11. 1/10/13 6:22 AM by Cami
Probably crazier than you or me. Always on here reading about freedom yet your descendents are from England and the British invented prisons which you are very much in favor of for non-violent drug addicts when in fact drug addition has been considered a disease by the AMA since 1956 & you see no problem with them being put in prison for life. Isn't what you talk about a political double standard? Get educated!
# 12. 1/10/13 6:30 AM by Tom - Perinton
You are wrong in your understanding of Constitutional law and the ideas and beliefs of Thomas Jefferson, the architect of the great document..........
Jefferson thought the dead should not rule the living, thus constitutions should expire frequently, but the fact is that the U.S. Constitution quickly became enshrined by the public and is the oldest constitution in the world. However, he KNEW ALL LAWS WERE NOT "absolute" in and of themselves for future generations.........
Here is the quote, views pretty clear. "I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions, but laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors."
Editor's Note: jefferson was in france when the constitution was written. nice try, though.
# 13. 1/10/13 6:33 AM by Bill - Rochester NY
I hate to sound sexist, but many if not most women are perfectly happy giving up a few rights in the name of "safety". They are much more likely to favor the nonsense at the airports, for example. As women gain in political power the right to own firearms will grow more and more tenuous and will eventually be taken away. To make us "safe". It's all but inevitable.
# 14. 1/10/13 6:33 AM by rjd
Bob, I need to change my poll choice from dont know to mental. Sorry about that, I saw where if you take antidepressants that you are mental so yea, that would be me. Yes I have panic disorder that I take SSRI's for which seem to help a lot, something about not enough happy sauce in your brain, blah, blah, blah. Anyway sorry for the confusion. Thsi does bring up a big issue though, can you be president if you are mentally ill? or hold any elected office? and of course ironically crazy uncle Joe Biden is in charge of taking away guns, you just have to laugh. Anyway I have to go to work now and make some tax money to send to Obama so he can get back to taking away some more of my freedoms.
# 15. 1/10/13 6:59 AM by jay
Should a mental illness cost one a civil right ? Absolutely, if that illness manifests itself in a tendency toward violence that endangers the lives or safety of others.
# 16. 1/10/13 7:06 AM by gdm - bergen
All this talk is driving me crazy. The idea that the practitioners of an inexact science will be reporting people as unfit to own or use a firearm is frighting enough. Will they have goals to meet. Will they be expected to turn in a monthly quota? Will this apply only to civilians or will it include the military and police? This could turn into some full time employment. Maybe it is a good thing.
# 17. 1/10/13 7:19 AM by Bob
Bob, this time your column is a waste of space. It means nothing considering the NRA has influenced the Affordable Care Act to protect every mentally ill gun owner.
The rule of law here is a Doctor cannot directly ask if a patient has guns. The law also states a doctor cannot write down, the fact the patient has a gun. If a patient is massing a large arsenal, doctors cannot record that in anyway shape or form. Last if a nut case gun owner is asked about guns, it is against the law for him to answer. This all starts on page 2037 of the law of the land.
Thank you NRA, thank you Bob for a country that gives us over 66000 shooting victims a year. This includes 87% of the the children shot in the worlds 25 riches countries. Guess life means nothing to a minority group of our society.
Editor's Note: this post comes from one of the bank of democrat computers, all with nearly identical id numbers, having come off the same truck. all list a single first name. the fact is that doctors ask all the time if you own guns, pediatricians ask every visit. and it is put in your medical records. our friends on the left use dishonesty and deceit as their first weapon.
# 18. 1/10/13 7:35 AM by Rick G. - Spencerport, NY
If you look at this from the point of view of an insurance auditor - one who sees risks that could cause liability - mentally ill in the 21st century should be defined as anyone who takes a prescription drug on a regular basis that has a side effect of suicidal thoughts, aggression, delusion, hostility or impulse-control disorder.
Let the ACLU chew on that one. Their view of the 2nd Amendment is one of a collective right, not an individual right. Well, roughly 10-20% of America is on some sort of mood altering prescription drug. Collectively, that's a large percentage of people who have a problem with suicidal thoughts, aggression, delusion, hostility or impulse-control disorder. I'm more concerned about that than inanimate objects like high capacity magazines and "assault" rifles.
# 19. 1/10/13 7:36 AM by Liam's Dad - Rochester
MEGA - SUPER - UBER - FUBO
“First they came…” is a famous statement attributed to pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) about the inactivity of German intellectuals following the Nazi rise to power and the purging of their chosen targets, group after group.
“First they came for the assault weapons and I didn't speak out because I didn’t have assault weapons. Then they came for the guns of the mentally ill, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't mentally ill. Then they came for the guns of the depressed, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't depressed. Then they came for my guns, and there was no one left to speak for me.”
Now I am Depressed…!!!
# 20. 1/10/13 7:55 AM by Tom Dey - Springwater, NY
FAT PEOPLE: This is indeed a Pandora's Box that the anti-gun (loons!) are gleefully sneaking in there. Morbid obesity and anorexia/bulimia are obsessive-compulsive mental disorders. So anyone who is over or underweight (BMI out of good range) because they can't help but eat too little or too much - are by definition mental cases. Half the U.S. population are FAT; they should therefore not have guns. Most are in denial and untreated, that makes them even more dangerous. They self-treat themselves (to Big Macs, large fries and shakes)...which is suicidal for sure. In the limit-that's where this is headed. Al Gore should have his guns, knives, forks and spoons confiscated. History is showing that the activists will push the envelope forever. Now, "FREEZE! Back away from that 16-oz. soda and relinquish your pistol!"
# 21. 1/10/13 8:05 AM
#2 said it best.
You fool no one Bob.
# 22. 1/10/13 8:06 AM
This sounds too personal. We all know your family history with mental illness. Which drugs are you on?
# 23. 1/10/13 8:26 AM by Jen - Livonia, NY
I'm one of the few people I know who are NOT on psychiatric medication. Probably by the government's definition, that makes me crazy as a loon.
Don't forget kids with oppositional defiant disorder and selective mutes. Can they have guns? What if your kid that doesn't live with you is mentally ill? Your neighbor? Uncle Joe who comes over on Thanksgiving?
I agree that guns should not be sold to anyone with a history of violence. It would also be nice if we could somehow define people who are seriously mentally ill and dangerous, but I'm not sure how you could really do that. Anything beyond those is ridiculous, and completely unenforceable except by banning guns altogether. Oh wait, I forgot, that's exactly the point, isn't it?
# 24. 1/10/13 8:36 AM by Bart - Webster
What we need is a registry of violent criminals and murders who have been served their time and completed parole, just like sex offenders must be registered. The registry could be checked when a 911 call is made for a fire or medical emergency. If an offender is living at the address or in the vicinity, police could meet the firefighters or EMTs there and assure the situation is safe. This could reduce the possibility of ambushes like the one in Webster.
# 25. 1/10/13 8:40 AM by Carl - Williamson
#10 has described obama,cuomo and the democrat party.
# 26. 1/10/13 8:43 AM by Dave - Alfred
#12 is accurate, Thomas Jefferson indirectly was one of the authors of the Constitution, although he was not DIRECTLY involved in it's writing..
The U.S. Constitution is the work of several men, directly and indirectly. The three most notable persons whose work influenced the Constitution but who were not involved in its writing are Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and Thomas Paine. These three men plus the group of men involved in the writing of the Constitution are generally referred to as the "framers".
His quote from Jefferson about the perception of LAW by future generations is also correct, but you conveniently changed the subject.
What is your answer to Jefferson's belief...you so frequently pick and choose your own interpretation of what the "framers" meant. That quote is very straight forward in it's meaning.
Jefferson wrote "I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions, but laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors."
Editor's Note: you are full of crap. jefferson was a non-entity in the writing and ratification of the constitution. just read something sometime. look stuff up.
# 27. 1/10/13 8:49 AM by Poplar Beach
You are right Bob, it is a slippery slope. I have friends on medication, some should not have guns, for others there is no danger, but who decides this, the same doctors who decide who should qualify for disability for bad back, migraines, carpal tunnel? I have some good friends who are doctors, they tell me that diagnosis is often a very difficult thing.
But we have to do something, or a combination of things. Armed resource officers in all schools, better mental screening for gun buyers, (yes, some folks will get screwed, others will slip through) and for me the banning of large magazines can be on the table.
I have heard several, including you, say this will make no difference, you can change a magazine in the blink of an eye. If this is true, why not 10 round magazines instead of thirty, round magazines. True gun aficionados, people who know what they are doing could change magazines in a heartbeat, nuts like those three (the theater, the school, and Webster) I am thinking that their shaking hands could not change magazines in a heartbeat.
I know it will not really make a significant difference, there are already so many large magazines out there, and for criminals there will be plenty more, but the give them an inch, they will take a mile argument of the NRA is wearing a little thin these days and we are going to give up something?
# 28. 1/10/13 9:04 AM by Mike - Bonita Springs, FL
You want to know what "nuts" is?
Anyone who voted for Obama is a nut case.
# 29. 1/10/13 9:16 AM by Liam's Dad - Rochester
MEGA - SUPER - UBER - FUBO
I thought this was worth re-posting today, I hope you think so too...
# 36. 1/9/13 9:44 AM by Mike - Stafford, NY The left has worked for the last 50 years to present the government as your friend which will protect you from life's problems. They do this by putting LIFE as the number one issue which is always worth more and more controlling laws which reduce your freedoms and privileges. They forget that here in the U.S., FREEDOM is the number one issue and we have always sacrificed LIFE to protect and maintain our FREEDOM every time it has been threatened. There will always be people who use our freedoms against us and cause pain and loss of life. The solution is not to take the freedoms away to conserve life. That is against the FREEDOM priority which we have had since this nation was formed. These socialists (communists) will use any opportunity to relieve us of freedoms under the guise of protecting us. DON'T LET THIS HAPPEN. Fight them with everything you have before it is too late.
Also, Please everyone must see this movie on-line.
"Agenda, Grinding Down America"
It explains almost everything happening today.
One other thing,
The right to "keep and bear arms", of what ever type & power you can legally obtain, is because THE GOVERNMENT HAS THEM.
# 30. 1/10/13 9:25 AM
I wouldn't have a problem with shooting a crazy person, nor would I have a problem with the death penalty for a crazy person. Misuse your right and you're dead meat to me.
# 31. 1/10/13 9:27 AM by GEORGE (THE OTHER ONE) - GANANOQUE ONTARIO CANADA
The danger of inserting a 'mental illness' into the equation is that, the official diagnosis of that condition can and usually does, change over time. An Example of that 'spread' is autism. It can be argued that, the observed increase in the number of persons diagnosed with this condition, has increased because the definition has become broader over time.
There are a number of reasons that this spread in a defined diagnosis might occur and they run the gamut of "more patients = more funding for research", to "More patients = larger fund raising", to "Hey, we just didn't know that it was this wide spread."
The result is that, in this case, a person who is not officially diagnosed with a mental condition that might disqualify him from purchasing a gun today, may fall into that category tomorrow.
The more suspicious amongst us might even say that, a government bent on illuminating guns from society, might use this phenomenon as a tool to advance their agenda.
# 32. 1/10/13 9:29 AM by Abby - Pittsford
People like yourself who are mentally ill but not yet violent may be caught up in the prohibitions. Wait a minute....isn't that a good thing?
# 33. 1/10/13 9:31 AM
Our pediatrician has never once asked if we own guns. Ditto for any of our family therapists (we've had a few.)
I have a friend who was going through a tough and stressful time and her sister showed up at her house to confiscate her handgun. Sister got told to butt out and mind her own business - seems to me a lot of people could benefit from that advice.
# 34. 1/10/13 9:32 AM by GEORGE (THE OTHER ONE) - GANANOQUE ONTARIO CANADA
"However, he KNEW ALL LAWS WERE NOT "absolute"
Seems to me a German guy with a funny little moustache said the same thing. Or maybe I am just thinking of every other dictator who has made the same argument to justify his 'changing' of a constitution.
Better the devil you know . . ... .
# 35. 1/10/13 9:32 AM by Sam - Batavia
What about people who were mental but have now cured by Jesus?
# 36. 1/10/13 9:34 AM by Marathon Man
I used to take anti-depressant and anti-anxiety drugs. After several years on both, I decided to wean myself off of them.
After acclimating to what I consider a more normal, unmedicated state, I have no symptoms of either depression or anxiety. Or at least that is what I think, and my doctor does concur. I feel much better overall than I have in years, mentally, physically, and spiritually. My doctor wanted me to stay on my meds, but he is aware of my condition and approves of me no longer taking the drugs.
Years ago, I got myself off of alcohol. Now I am working on being caffeine-free. I am down to 1/2 cup a day, at breakfast, no soda during the day, and I feel much better. I used to consume 10 or more cups in a day. Alcohol should not be legal, or at least as well-accepted as it is, and it is hard to get off of if you are dependent. Caffeine has been the hardest addiction to kick, and it is totally legal! My last addiction to conquer is sex, but I think I will keep that one for a while. I thank God every day that I never got into using tobacco in any form, and have never been a street-drug user.
George Carlin was right, beer (or even breast milk) leads to heroin. I today truly believe that if I had never begun using alcohol and caffeine I would never have become depressed and prone to panic attacks.
But I do have one question. Just because I feel better, does that really mean I should not be taking those meds? Am I still really sick but just by chance doing OK (so far) without those meds? It has been 2 years since I have been off-meds, and I feel safe.
Is it safe???
# 37. 1/10/13 9:35 AM by Tim - Barre
very bad and unsettling precedent was made when a certain failed Vice President was allowed to go scotch free without even a slap on the wrist after taking his hunting companion for a quail and shooting him in the face. To my bewilderment that Dick continues to enjoy freedom and to occasionally yap his mouth on the important issues facing our country.
# 38. 1/10/13 9:37 AM by DJ
If the idea of preventing unstable people from having weapons makes you anxious, maybe you should talk to a professional about that.
# 39. 1/10/13 9:38 AM by kittynana - Lewiston NY
Many times, those patients who are not suidicidal are prescribed medicines for their various mental illnesses that MAKE them that way.
Pharmocology, in my somewhat educated opinion, is a huge problem in today's treatment of mental illness. Many people do not receive the counseling they need to go along with the all-too-often-prescribed pharmocology. Either they receive NO social/psycotherapy or, many times, their therapists are incompetent and not thoroughly trained.
THAT'S the issue.
# 40. 1/10/13 9:42 AM by Deb - Fairport
I think Republicans should be regulated. They are the most dangerous thing in this country. A newspaper should plot them all on a map so I know what neighborhoods to avoid.
# 41. 1/10/13 9:42 AM
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
Hmm. Now what does "well regulated" mean? Maybe people can only have so many guns, or only of a specific type. Maybe only so much ammunition can be stockpiled per gun owner. Maybe -- yes, maybe -- it means that certain people can be barred from owning a gun, based on their criminal or medical history. Maybe it means that gun owners must periodically apply to re-register their guns, including proving that they are still in their possession, and be prepared to surrender the weapons if their application is not approved for some legitimate reason.
Maybe it means all those things, or other things as well. Reasonable people can argue all day about what constitutes "well regulated," but in the meantime the fact remains that government regulation of firearm ownership is hard-wired into the Constitution. Deal with it.
# 42. 1/10/13 9:46 AM by Edward - Letchworth
Frankly anyone who needs to have a gun other than for hunting or sport, has a mental problem.
# 43. 1/10/13 9:50 AM by Casper - Orchard Park
It would be nice if the mentally disturbed who are likely to commit violent crimes would reveal themselves at the point of sale.
"How many people can I shoot in, say, 30 minutes, and how many large capacity magazines will I need for 30 minutes?"
"Do you sell body armor?"
# 44. 1/10/13 9:52 AM by little john - Mount Morris, NY
I enjoyed your column and the comments..."Sanity is a relative? term depending on the balance of the norm." I have a mental illness (PTSD) from which I am recovering...I have chosen for forty years not to own or possess a gun, or rifle.(I know the difference and respect both...)I also respect the right of those who wish to own a rifle or gun...There is a reason for everything under the sun. It is like a Catch-22 in this "gun" debate. Are those who chose not to own a "gun" crazy? But if I wanted to own one, knowing I am mentally ill, I could justify it legally with the "help" of a lawyer. Then the lawyer and the doctor who said it was OK, would not be crazy like I am...(I also know why most headshrinkers don't own guns.) Just think "The Sixth Sense"...
p.s. "The Commonwealth Of Gun Control" just does not sound American to me, a disabled Vietnam Combat Veteran...
# 45. 1/10/13 9:52 AM by james - avon, ny
You state rhetorically in your blog "do you know many psychologists, counselors, social workers and psychiatrists who are pro-gun?" Obviously what you mean is that the vast majority of these qualified professionals do not think the way you do about guns. They are sane, educated professionals. You are not. They believe there should be controls while you believe that you need to have assault rifles with 100 bullet magazines. What do you need these for, other than as a substitute for having a small penis? Why does any man need a semiautomatic weapon with a 100 bullet magazine other than to kill people or to make him feel like he is more of a man than he really is?
# 46. 1/10/13 9:52 AM by tom - penfield, ny
Bob is going on about guns again. How boring. Bob is going on about guns again. How boring. Bob is going on about guns again. How boring.
I think you set the standard for crazy, Bob. Your paranoia is a good indication of mental problems. They are coming to take your guns, Bob. You will be hiding in your basement when they surround your house and demand the weapons you have refused to turn in. They are coming for you, Bob. They know where you live and they know you have many guns and tons of ammo because you have been dumb enough to brag about them constantly. Not smart, Bob. I have been reading about how the NRA is losing it's influence rapidly. Most of the politicians they supported went down to defeat this past election and even in 2008. Now we know that one of the leaders of the NRA is a freak. He is also plainly a whore for the gun manufacturers. Wayne LaPierre has an amazing resemblance to Adolph Hitler (the hair is perfect). If he would wear a little square mustache on his upper lip he would be the spitting image of Der Fuhrer. He has also proven himself to be at least as deranged and demonic. Bob, you and your kind are losing in the court of public opinion. It won't be long before they come to get you and throw you in jail where you belong. Try to write about another topic tomorrow if you can, unless your serious case OCD won't let you. What are the voices in your head telling you, Bob?
# 47. 1/10/13 9:53 AM by Ben - Tonawanda
Ronald Reagan cut funding for mental health care in the US and we've had to live with the consequences.
# 48. 1/10/13 9:58 AM by Nicki
“Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!” - George Carlin
# 49. 1/10/13 10:01 AM by Paula - Chili
Toys are more regulated than guns are.
# 50. 1/10/13 10:02 AM by Fred - Walworth, NY
Just exactly how do you tell the difference between someone who is "mentally ill" and a "real American" who rushes the nearest gun shop to hoard guns, because they think that's a logical and reasonable response to a mass killing?
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